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Destiny 2: Line In The Sand Damage Tests – Worth Grinding For(?)

Destiny 2: Line In The Sand Damage Tests – Worth Grinding For(?)

Linear Fusions haven’t really been the talk
of the town since… well, ever really. However, a couple of things happened recently
that may give a little bit of life to linear fusions. Number 1 is their precision damage got increased
by 20%, although this didn’t end up affecting Sleeper Simulant. Number 2 is the target acquisition at close
to medium ranges was significantly increased. I DEFINITELY noticed this increase from Season
8 to Season 9 when using Arbalest in PvP. I was using it in Season 8 to get a triumph
done and it was a terrible experience at best. Then, Season 9 rolls around and I grind out
my 125 linear fusion kills for the Komodo 4FR Crucible ritual weapon in less than dozen
games. All of a sudden, using Arbalest was dare I
say actually fun in PvP. But, we’re not here to talk about PvP today. Today, we’re here to talk about Line in the
Sand, the Season 9 linear fusion that came with Sundial. What makes Line in the Sand special is that
it is the only linear fusion rifle that can roll with Firing Line in the entire game. Firing Line is a 25% precision damage increase
when you’re near 2 or more fireteam members. As you might know, Firing Line is probably
the one perk that can actually keep stuff like legendary snipers in contention as boss
killing weapons vs. exotic weapons. And early in the season, there was a lot of
talk about Line in the Sand and its damage capabilities. So, you can probably guess where this is going. Oh, and it’s also the only linear fusion rifle
in the game that can get Rapid Hit, allowing for super fast reloads without having to kill
something and without the need for Rally Barricade or Lunafactions. Rapid Hit x5 and Rally Barricade are approximately
the same speed in terms of reloads. We did determine that auto-loading holster
is important for DPS and rotating your weapons, but seeing as Firing Line AND Holster are
in the same column of perks, linear fusions would need a substantial buff to make Holster
better than Firing Line. I tested a range of Line in the Sand linear
fusions with Rapid Hit at various charge speeds, 466, 500, 533, 553 and 566. All testing was done on the boss Ogre in the
Tribute Hall with 960 Line in the Sand Linear Fusions, with the exception of the 466, which
is at 964. However, the damage increase is not statistically
significant. I was at 979 power when doing these tests. Charge speed and damage per shot on linear
fusions are linked: the faster the charge speed, the lower the damage and this includes
the charge masterwork. As we can see here, the 466 charge speed shot
deals just under 20,000 damage, while the 566 deals 21.5 thousand damage. What I would like to do is see if faster charge
speeds end up giving you higher or lower DPS compared to slower speeds. The charge time equals how many milliseconds
it takes to fire a shot, so 466 would be 466 milliseconds. To test this out, I fired 5 shots as fast
and consistently as I could on each charge speed that I had available to me, which were
466, 500, 533 and 566, although I could not for the life of me get a 566 variant of Line
in the Sand with Firing Line, so I got a 553 instead. However, the 553 and 566 charge speeds are
so close, that I feel we could just add on a tiny bit of damage to our result and be
fine. For our 466 charge speed Line in the Sand,
it takes us about 4.5 seconds from the first frame where I see the charge animation starting
via particle effects on my screen until the 5th shot is shot from the magazine. This is our highest possible damage window
because it negates any post-final shot downtime and reloads. At 500 speed, it’s 4.66 seconds, at 533 it’s
4.833 seconds and at 566, it’s 5 seconds. All we need to do now is toss in our damage
numbers. 466 charge speed at 964 deals 24,595 with
Firing Line. 5 shots is 122,975 damage in 4.5 seconds,
DPS of 27,328. 500 charge speed at 960 deals 25,288 with
Firing Line. For the record, the 964 version dealt a whopping
101 damage more. 5 shots is 126,440 damage in 4.66 seconds,
DPS of 27,133. If we use the 964 version, our DPS is 27,241. Our charge speed increased and our DPS dropped
a little bit. And that trend will continue. 533 charge speed at 960 deals 26,079 damage
with Firing Line. 5 shots is 130,395 damage in 4.83 seconds,
DPS of 26,996. So, just on this alone, it’s pretty safe to
assume that you want a faster charging Line in the Sand if you want higher DPS. However, for greater total damage, if each
individual shot counts, you want slower charging. But, for example, is a 300 DPS difference
really that noticeable in the grand scheme of the game? A 1.2% difference in this case? Absolutely not. Let’s throw some mods into the mix, Boss Spec
and Backup Mag. WIth our 466 Line in the Sand with Boss Spec,
no Firing Line, our damage is 21,227 per shot. If we want to add our 25% bonus with Firing
Line, we can, but for this test, it is not needed. 106,135 damage in 5 shots, divided by 4.5
seconds, 23,586 DPS. With Backup Mag, we get a 6th shot, which
now requires 5.5 seconds of time commitment for lower damage per shot. 19,697 times 6 is 118,182 damage, divided
by 5.5 seconds, that’s 21,488 DPS, which is about 2,000 lower than boss spec. So, if I’m looking to use this thing for boss
damage, boss spec is the play. Is there any combination of Line in the Sand
that could beat the 466 speed, boss spec version? The only one I can really imagine is a 500
charge speed, 6 in the mag, boss spec version, with Rapid Hit. That’s a charge masterwork, with Ionized Battery,
and Rapid Hit. I have this roll, but I didn’t want to spend
17 cores on it, so I simulated it instead. 6 shots at 500 charge speed takes 5.72 seconds
to perform. With boss spec, we are dealing 21,913 damage
per shot, giving us 131,478 damage in that amount of time. Sounds like it could beat it, buuuuuuut, we
end up with 22,985 DPS, which is 600 DPS less than our 466 charge version. What about over the long term? Let’s say 15 shots, 3 magazines worth? Who is the winner there? Well, I’m going to spare you here. I did 2 simulations, one with the 466 charge
speed and one with 566 charge speed. And over the course of 15 shots for each of
the weapons, both with Rapid Hit, the DPS difference between the two was… 43. 43 damage per second. In favor of the 566. This is a number so small that it could’ve
been influenced by my potentially non-perfectly timed shooting, we’re talking fractions of
fractions of seconds here. So, you could grab a 566 Line in the Sand
compared to a 466 and it literally would not make a difference. However, the amount of times you’re shooting
15 linear fusion shots in a row at Rapid Hit x5 is probably not that often and I prefer
higher DPS than total damage most of the time. Real quick, when it comes to auto-loading
holster vs. firing line, I’ll shave a generous 2 seconds off of our reloads, I’m assuming
you’re playing really well. And Firing Line still blows auto-loading holster
out of the water, by about 2,000 DPS. In fact, I think for auto-loading holster
to beat Firing Line in terms of DPS, you would need to be able to fire 15 shots faster than
the game actually allows you to shoot. This isn’t to say that auto-loading holster
is a bad get, because in stuff where you can’t be next to teammates all the time for DPS,
Firing Line does literally nothing. Alright, we have our Firing Line DPS numbers
floating around 27,000. How does that fare against some other weaponry? We talked about Sole Survivor earlier in the
video, let’s test against that. Sole Survivor at 960 does 14,322 damage per
shot without Firing Line, we’ll multiply by 25% to get our FIring Line damage value, which
is 17,902. I did 5 shots to equal our Line in the Sand
shooting for now. 17,902 times 5 is 89,512 damage, which is
well below our total damage from earlier. But, we’re shooting at a rate of 90 RPM, and
we can shoot 5 shots, with the 5th shot landing in 2.67 seconds at max rate of fire. Which gets us DPS of 33,525, which is pretty
substantially higher than Line in the Sand. Not to mention that I have Triple Tap on my
Sole Survivor, which enables me to shoot for even longer without having to reload. That means even more DPS for Sole Survivor
if you have those perks. And, I wasn’t using boss spec either. Two big distinctions to make though: Sole
Survivor is far more difficult to farm for in terms of time investment, while you can
get up to 4 Line in the Sands for about 10 minutes of work. The other is that one uses special ammo, Sole
Survivor, while Line in the Sand uses power ammo, which is much less common. How about against the holy grail of linear
fusions, Sleeper Simulant? Sleeper did not get the linear fusion precision
damage buff, so let’s see how it’s doing. 34,201 damage per shot, with a magazine of
3 shots, with a charge speed of 773 because we have the catalyst. We get a time of 3.36 seconds from the first
charging of the shot, to the third shot leaving the magazine. 34,201 times 3 is 102,603, divided by 3.36
seconds gets us DPS of 30,536. But keep in mind that this DPS value is right
before our DPS nose dives because of the animation of the 3rd shot and the reload. So while it does technically outperform Line
in the Sand under a 1 magazine condition, it’s not by a ton. Not to mention that Sleeper is an exotic AND
I have the catalyst too. Without the catalyst, these numbers get even
closer. And, if I throw on boss spec to a Firing Line
Line in the Sand, we get even closer than that. And just for fun, we’ll test against one of
the current champions, Izanagi’s Burden, since I heard some rumblings very early in the season
that Line in the Sand was actually out-DPSing Izanagi’s Burden. The ol’ Burden deals 15,158 damage per shot,
getting 4 shot per mag. That’s 60,632 damage in about 2 seconds. Which is 30,316 DPS, still not beating out
Line in the Sand, although it’s close. The clip I used in the video was 2.33 seconds
for 4 shots, which actually tanks our DPS down to 25,989, so if you’re not firing at
maximum rate of fire with Izanagi’s, then Line in the Sand is better, again, assuming
you fire at max rate of fire. But, let’s test the real Izanagi’s. With a catalyst, with Honed Edge x4, we get
67,117 damage in a single shot, but we’re gonna fire off 5 shots to really get a good
comparison, reloads and all. It takes 9.72 seconds to fire 5 Honed Edge
x4 shots using the same timing as earlier. 335,585 damage in 9.72 seconds is 34,525 DPS,
a pretty notable increase compared to Line in the Sand’s best DPS window. The difference here is that with Izanagi’s,
we are now out of ammo, which might seem like a win for Line in the Sand. But, to equal Izanagi’s damage, we need to
fire 14 line in the sand shots, which takes much longer to do. All in all, is Line in the Sand the new god
tier damage weapon? Nah. But, it can at the very least compete with
something like Sole Survivor and if linear fusions happen to get another buff, or something
gets nerfed, then Line in the Sand with Firing Line and Rapid Hit might become a better option. Based on what we saw here, it seems like the
best bang for your buck will be a charge masterwork, accelerated coil, Rapid Hit, Firing Line version
of the weapon, pretty specific. However, because the variations don’t have
massive differences between them, especially over the long term, any Rapid Hit/Firing Line
version will work just fine. I’ve very frequently seen feedback saying
that linear fusions should just be moved into the special ammo slot and taken out of the
power slot. I know I’ve seen this feedback for swords
as well, and while I would agree with this more than I would agree with swords, I just
don’t know if throwing underperforming weapons into other weapon slots is the best idea. At the moment, it sure seems like Linears
could be dropped into the special slot for PvE solely based on their damage alone. I don’t know the ramifications of what would
happen if linears were moved. Arbalest is already in the special slot and
doesn’t really cause too many problems in PvE, so maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. I just don’t know enough to say whether it
would be a good or bad idea. Anyway, that’s what I have for you on Line
in the Sand. Thanks for watching.

100 thoughts on “Destiny 2: Line In The Sand Damage Tests – Worth Grinding For(?)

  • I've been lucky enough to have a rapid hit/firing line with accelerated coils and stability masterwork (500 charge time). My opinion the second best roll you can get.

  • Can we just put black spindle and DARCI in the special slot before we start talking about linear fusions jumping in there please

  • I think they need to be buffed again (maybe only another 5-10% base damage), but box breathing really needs to be un-nerfed imo. Komodo right now is worthless. It would be nice if a ritual could get more use than a very easy to farm legendary.

  • If my understanding is correct, Line in the Sand and Izanagi’s are not as close as you make them seem. There is a difference between a weapon’s burst DPS (like at 5:07), which is the DPS within a single magazine, and the sustained DPS (like at 9:19) that factors in reloading, which is what you’ll have against bosses that can live through a mag. Given that Izanagi’s DPS has to be measured in the sustained format due to the nature of the gun (reload after every shot), you should hold LitS to the same standard. Rather than comparing Iza’s 34k to LitS’s 27k, we should be comparing it to its 20k.

    Please correct me if I’ve misunderstood anything here, but if I’m not mistaken, LitS is not even in the same league as Izanagi’s for their numbers.

  • My thoughts:
    If linears are moved, then all of them need to be energy weapons(sleeper should stay as a heavy weapon and queen breakers should move to special as well). This way arbalest is the only kinetic linear keeping it unique and Sleeper is the only heavy linear keeping it unique.

    If they dont linears need to out damage snipers in the special slot even if they have firing line. Heavy weapons should be better at damage on bosses than special weapons.
    Id rather see linears moved and have higher damage over all than snipers. And snipers having better dps. Also if they arent going to move them than buff queensbreaker it desperately needs it.

  • Honestly, absolute god roll with Izanagi is just crazy
    When I got my 500 charge god roll I had no idea how good it is cause it's Linear Fusion that's not Sleeper so I didn't even bother trying it… I regret going through soo many GoS runs without using it cause 40k per hit is crazy damage when you run out of Izanagi

  • you know with this linear fusion buffs sleeper would have been useable again, idk why bungie is scared of sleeper, even with the crit damage buff it wouldn't be op

  • 11:49 Datto how COULD you, I thought I could trust you but this is HEINOUS and UNACCEPTABLE. Imagine the trouble you could have costed as I'm prepping to shoot my enemy, and I know I only have 773 miliseconds to act and think I'm going to make it out ok. Disgraceful

  • Using the line in GOS, extended mag rapid hit firing line. Get 6 shots off, the burden uses got of 3-4. Done some quick math, and got a slightly lower total dmg than burden.
    Concluded that seeing the boss is basically always 2 phase, line is viable if you want to switch it up anduse a different exotic.

  • The sundial and its weapons are actually a very nice touch. While the Line in the Sand is not a DPS king, it does give players that are new to year three an opportunity at a reasonable end game entry.

    Izanagi is the meta right now, but it comes from year two content and can be a bit too grindy for players new to the game. Accessible entry points are relevant and are really nice to see. Definitely serviceable for year three and on

  • People sleep on Arbalest in PvE. Basically one hits all elemental shields in the game. Great for Whisper/Outbreak missions.

  • Linear Fusions are not fun to use. Another Heavy one shot. Who cares? Komodo reeks of desperation to make an archetype relevant when it isn't. The last thing Destiny PVP needs is another One Shot Heavy. Firing Line damage? Lol. WGAF. It is boring nonsense. If you need this Damage buff you are playing the wrong game.

  • They should definitely make their damage on par with grenade launchers or they should have much more ammo to increase total damage output. In concept they are clearly supposed to be the spartan laser from halo which is a rocket launcher that has no travel time and in order to destroy a vehicle it must penetrate the pilot canopy and kill the pilot or you can cut the turret off of the tank to turn it into a mobile war brick. It sacrifices damage for the ability to do much more precision damage than the rocket launcher and is the bane of banshees and hornets who are helpless to stop it. But linear fusion rifles are not treated this way in destiny. Instead they are just sniper rifles that are much more expensive to maintain.

  • I'd go with the slower charge time if it means it has a better chance to 1-shot majors in higher tier activities. For instance, does the charge time make a difference on the cyclops in Garden of Salvation?

  • TL;DW: Charge MW, Accelerated Coil, Rapid hit Firing Line.

    However any rapid hit firing line versions should work fine.

  • I got a good/god roll for every weapon except the travelers judgment I’m damn well not grinding again for the rank 92 bonus of getting another secondary perk 😂 sundial is just boring

  • I actually think it’s better in the heavy slot ONLY because of izanagi. I’d like my special ammo to all go it, rather than the line in the sand which doesn’t perform as well as it…but generally I run a grenade launcher in heavy. Does anyone recall the dps for wendigo off hand? Or am I headed to an older Datto vid? Lol.

    Heavy vs heavy. That’s the test I want to see.

  • Rather than move Linear Fusions to special I think snipers like Izanagi and Sole Survivor should be moved to heavy. That one should really be the "boss damage" slot.

  • The issue with moving linear fusions to special isn't to do with how they would perform there, its to do with the the fact that it would remove the only legendary precision heavy weapon, and the only real long range heavy weapon. They really still need a buff, but moving them to the special slot just makes them weird snipers and lowers our heavy weapon variety.

  • Quick Answer: fuck no

    Also, your Izanagi test did not have max reload, while your LitS test did, meaning izanagi’s DPS would be much, much higher than what was shown here.

  • how does it perform in comparison to an love and death grenade launcher with spike grenades and full court? i also got field prep on it so its basically perfect

  • "Firing Line. This weapon deals increased precision damage when near two or more allies".

    Where are the allies at the simulated ogre? Show me the allies.

  • Datto why!!! Damage in the tribute hall is based on weapon power, not overall power! That’s why sleeper was so bad

  • Listening to this my from car, I would've really rather had: "Liquid Coils + Charge Time MW does this". I don't know which one you were talking about this whole time. I'll rewatch now, of course, but yeah

  • Better version of Line in the Sand, grab a Tranquility from Eris, it can roll autoloading holster, firing line, and can get 6 or 7 in the mag depending on the mod.

  • I think the worst ramifications for putting Linear Fusions in the special ammo economy would be that it would likely bloat the energy slot way too much, and also kill the relevance for Arbalest as an exotic.
    I think they just need to keep going with bumping up the damage or dumbing down reload speed, since they don't really have a specific benefit that other weapons can't give.

  • Hey there I'm new to destiny and my friends who are veteran destiny players say you're the guy to go to for learning about the game, so I had a question:

    At first glance this game really seems like a game where I want to hoard a bunch of good guns and cover all my bases in terms of elements and weapon types. So I was wondering what the top weapons are for each slot > type > element ? Like for example I know if I want a void machine gun I go hammerhead, if I want an arc GL I go with 21% Delirium / Play of the Game, etc…

    Could be a cool idea for a video to run down all the best weapon types across each slot for every element so we know what to hunt down as new players 🙂

  • The biggest thing that people don't think about with linears is how easy it is to hit bosses with jerky animations or on the move. It also makes it less punishing when you miss a shot as opposed to missing an izanagi shot.

  • Linear fusions in the special slot would absolutely be the way to go, Arbelest is proof of that, it's the only reason that one sees play at all. There is not really a reason to take up your heavy slot with a linear fusion rifle when there are a number of other weapons that can do the job better. Linear fusion rifles are basically fancy energy snipers with a reflex sight instead of a scope and high aim assist. With the exception of Sleeper Simulant (which should stay in the heavy slot) there is literally no reason to keep linear fusion rifles in the heavy slot.

    I don't see how you could be on the fence about that.. it's so obvious.

  • Queenbreaker would make a good candidate for the special slot, not sure about others because of backup plan one shot body-ing shenanigans

  • tfw a 20% damage boost to a heavy weapon only lets it "Compete" in damage per shot with a special ammo weapon

  • just reduce the AA and drop em in the special slot… hell we only have like 5 of them in the game so who gives a damn.

    Also in terms of PvP, using Arbalest as the example… Arbalest is not good… it's just the only Linear Fusion that doesn't take Heavy Ammo

  • I'm sure the poor ogre in the Titan lost sector is relieved and happy as a clam since we got the tribute hall targets 🙂

  • I've had the accelerated coils, rapid hit, Firing Line with charge masterwork for the longest time but I've been looking for anything but all this time. Lol.

    I guess I've been sleeping on a fantastic roll, thank you for the informative video. I'll go masterwork my Line in the Sand.

  • The nice thing about LitS is that you can run Loaded Question or a shotgun for some situations while still having a precision DPS weapon whereas with Izanagi’s or another sniper your special slot is taken

  • Regarding the whole special ammo linear fusion rifles, I think this would be a great idea not because of damage but rather because of how they function. Linear fusion rifles and normal fusion rifles behave more like delayed trigger sniper rifles and shotguns respectively where as the rest of the power weapon line up is focused on crowd clearing.

  • imo, bungie needs to take a look at the heavy options in the game to figure out what they want to do with them… for anything like grenade launchers, rocket launchers and linear fusions where the purpose of the weapon is pretty much exclusively boss DPS, the weapons should all have roughly the same DPS, and then which one you choose will depend on the boss you're up against, what other weapons you're running etc… for example if I'm running a martyrs in my special, I might want to run a grenade launcher in my heavy as well so I can double dip on my armor perks, If I have a line in the sand, then maybe I'd run an arbalest as my kinetic? point being that even if these 3 weapon types all had the same exact DPS there would still be reasons why you'd use one over the other in different scenarios…

  • It can compete with sole survivor but lets be honest, if youre using that youre using anarchy with it for boss dps which shreds it

  • Hey Datto, what's your thoughts on Trophy Hunter sniper with Triple Tap, Vorpal, Boss spec? Is it comparable to these?

  • I got crooked fang with high impact reserves and box breathing slap that with boss spec and it hits like a truck

  • I’m curious, does the charge time damage relation affect sleeper? Seeing as the catalyst lowers its charge time it makes me wonder what the change in dps is.

  • Am literally confuse .. I have this fusion rifle that is doing 22,000 damage and then switch to range to make an increase of 24,000 damage later to change it back to making 30,000 damage !!! WTH then using bubble my line of the sand doing a max final damage of 34,000

  • You didn't have two players near you in the tribute hall so how did you come up with your numbers? Or am I missing something? Because fire line is two or more players near.

  • the game isn't big enough to worry about all this. you can beat all the bosses either way…. its not boarderlands 2. not even close. its not what we expect, where destiny 1 and 2 would be interchangeable and seamless. bungie is just milking you. and you are falling for it.

  • 3:48 Hey Datto, I have a 566 Line in the Sand with Firing Line. Will try to get a friend to join me to test damage later. (Not home atm.)

  • I think we are kinda missing the point of the 'worth grinding for' if we are just comparing it to things like Izanagi, because one doesn't take the spot of the other. Considering the window of time for damage phases we might as well fire a first Izanagi shot, empty the magazine of LITS, and then go back to Izanagi. It could be a good alternative to a Grenade Launcher with auto loading holster.

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